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Tackling prostitution in Swindon
ONE of the biggest problems facing Swindon police is prostitution. Women are selling themselves across town, both working as street prostitutes and out of brothels, massage parlours and as call girls.
It is a crime both to sell sex or to pay for it. It is also illegal to run a brothel or profit from another person selling their body.
As well as the main offences linked to prostitution, the town's police are also concerned about other crimes linked to the sex trade, such as drug taking.
Insp Carly Nesbitt, in charge of the central sector neighbourhood policing teams, said: "We can arrest girls for soliciting and we can also get men who pick women up.
"We can compile information to decide whether they are offending by observing them, and if we see them getting into vehicles it helps build a case.
"By speaking to both parties we can then put more of a case together.
"On some occasions people suspected of soliciting can be told to leave a certain area. If they return to that area and don't have a legitimate reason to be there then we can arrest them.
"It all depends on the circumstances and there have been some cases where officers have caught them in the act with a client."
Insp Nesbitt explained that after arrests had been made there were a number of ways suspects could be dealt with.
"Depending on how many times they have been cautioned before we will decide whether to caution or charge them. Whatever happens they would still be arrested and taken to the police station and details taken. Normally after two cautions they would get the status of common prostitute.
"Depending on the age of the girl sometimes there would be more of a threat and they would be put under a police protection order.
"When it comes to kerb crawlers they can be cautioned or charged.
"We are also thinking of introducing, with the Crown Prosecution Service, a system of conditional cautioning."
Call to legalise brothels
A MAN who was accused of running a brothel has called for them to be legalised.
The man was charged with running a brothel but, speaking to the Adver, he said he just wanted to provide a safe place for prostitutes to work.
The man said he allowed his home to be used for his mother and a friend to sell sex as a safer alternative to walking the streets.
"We want nothing. I'm not making any money out of this. Anyone who comes here can see that we are not some big organisation making money," he said.
"These girls are just trying to work in a safe environment.
"This is my mother. Obviously I'm not totally happy about what she does. But if she is going to I would rather she was working under my roof.
"I'm just keeping her safe so she is not working on the streets.
"The police's attitude seemed to be that the girls on the streets were high on drugs so their lives were worthless.
"We know my mother has never touched drugs. It doesn't always revolve around drugs.
"The other woman has kids. That's how she provides for them. She has three little boys and she does what she has to do to get by. This was more an act of desperation on my part. I don't exactly enjoy what my mother is doing. But I can't stop her.
"It is so much better for them to work here where it is safe.
"We have got CCTV so we know who is coming in and who's going out. If anything did go wrong we have got security cameras and I'm here.
"The biggest thing I can't understand is how or why they haven't legalised it.
"What is the difference between porn films and a person paying for sex?
"Why is it that different when it is just not being filmed?"
9:19pm Sunday 4th May 2008
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CommentPosted by: amlorusso, Swindon on 3:52am Mon 5 May 08
[bold]"It is a crime both to sell sex or to pay for it."[/bold]
Repeat until this sinks in "Buying and selling sex is not automatically illegal, however many of the activities surrounding it are."
Prostitution is an important issue, whatever side of the fence you sit on. Important enough that this kind of mis-reporting is of no help.
"It is a crime both to sell sex or to pay for it."
Repeat until this sinks in "Buying and selling sex is not automatically illegal, however many of the activities surrounding it are."
Prostitution is an important issue, whatever side of the fence you sit on. Important enough that this kind of mis-reporting is of no help.
Posted by: GDean, Australia on 3:56am Mon 5 May 08
I came to Australia from Swindon 17 years ago. Melbourne is a large city, but I think because brothels are legal, and monitored the issues faced in Swindon are not here. The authorities check the girls health, situation, legal status and they pay Tax. The Brothels are away from residential areas. The girls have health and drug check, the environment is safe for both parties. One Brothel, the DailyPlanet is listed on the Australian Stock exchange. they are not allowed to sell or give alcohol.
All in all, those that want to work in it, or visit have a safe place to do so and the streets have been left to normal people again. It works.
I came to Australia from Swindon 17 years ago. Melbourne is a large city, but I think because brothels are legal, and monitored the issues faced in Swindon are not here. The authorities check the girls health, situation, legal status and they pay Tax. The Brothels are away from residential areas. The girls have health and drug check, the environment is safe for both parties. One Brothel, the DailyPlanet is listed on the Australian Stock exchange. they are not allowed to sell or give alcohol.
All in all, those that want to work in it, or visit have a safe place to do so and the streets have been left to normal people again. It works.
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 8:13am Mon 5 May 08
The way to eliminate 'street' prostitution is to name and shame the 'client'. If Swindon Police adopted this as a policy, 'street prostitution would disappear overnight. Imagine trying to justify having your face all over the local press, to your partner, family or employer. As for brothels, I have mixed views, yes as GDean says, it would make sense to control this, however would it give legitimacy to the 'trade' and encourage more people a. To be prostitutes, b. encourage more 'clients', knowing they were relatively safe from detection.
I do however have to agree with this comment:
[bold]"What is the difference between **** films and a person paying for sex?[/bold] It does seem somewhat of a double standard. I would also be quite worried as a client visiting a brothel where a son allows his own mother to prostitute herself and record the comings and goings, so to speak.
The way to eliminate 'street' prostitution is to name and shame the 'client'. If Swindon Police adopted this as a policy, 'street prostitution would disappear overnight. Imagine trying to justify having your face all over the local press, to your partner, family or employer. As for brothels, I have mixed views, yes as GDean says, it would make sense to control this, however would it give legitimacy to the 'trade' and encourage more people a. To be prostitutes, b. encourage more 'clients', knowing they were relatively safe from detection.
I do however have to agree with this comment:
"What is the difference between **** films and a person paying for sex? It does seem somewhat of a double standard. I would also be quite worried as a client visiting a brothel where a son allows his own mother to prostitute herself and record the comings and goings, so to speak.
Posted by: BWB, SWINDON on 8:26am Mon 5 May 08
[bold]Insp Carly Nesbitt, in charge of the central sector neighbourhood policing teams, said: "We can arrest girls for soliciting and we can also get men who pick women up.[/bold]
In the meantime some
poor sod is being mugged,or cars are being vandalised.
[bold]Ins. Nesbitt[/bold] ,get your priorities right.
Concentrate on the REAL CRIME,NOT the easy options.
Insp Carly Nesbitt, in charge of the central sector neighbourhood policing teams, said: "We can arrest girls for soliciting and we can also get men who pick women up.
In the meantime some
poor sod is being mugged,or cars are being vandalised.
Ins. Nesbitt ,get your priorities right.
Concentrate on the REAL CRIME,NOT the easy options.
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 8:30am Mon 5 May 08
BWB, if your residential area was blighted by this, and your female or for that male, family were accosted, I guess you would be happy with that.
BWB, if your residential area was blighted by this, and your female or for that male, family were accosted, I guess you would be happy with that.
Posted by: BWB, SWINDON on 8:46am Mon 5 May 08
[quote][bold]Robert Feal-Martinez[/bold] wrote:
BWB, if your residential area was blighted by this, and your female or for that male, family were accosted, I guess you would be happy with that.[/quote] Robert.
There is no comparison at all.
If accosted,you can tell them to F*** off.
You cant say that to a tooled up mugger
intent on relieving you of your money.
Or the yobs wrenching
your car mirror off.
Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:
BWB, if your residential area was blighted by this, and your female or for that male, family were accosted, I guess you would be happy with that.
Robert.
There is no comparison at all.
If accosted,you can tell them to F*** off.
You cant say that to a tooled up mugger
intent on relieving you of your money.
Or the yobs wrenching
your car mirror off.
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 9:12am Mon 5 May 08
BWB, so what would you say to the prostitutes 'pimp' 'tooled up'. I am not undermining what you say but both crimes are equally important to the 'innocent victim'. The solution as I see it from a policing perspective is probably the cheapest and most effective. Name and Shame. No clients no street prostitutes. Problem solved police move on to muggers.
BWB, so what would you say to the prostitutes 'pimp' 'tooled up'. I am not undermining what you say but both crimes are equally important to the 'innocent victim'. The solution as I see it from a policing perspective is probably the cheapest and most effective. Name and Shame. No clients no street prostitutes. Problem solved police move on to muggers.
Posted by: Donkey, Swindon on 9:52am Mon 5 May 08
Two points:
1. It is very costly to place an [italic]ad in The Adver[/italic].
2. Every edition carries a large section of 'adult services'!
Need I say more?
Two points:
1. It is very costly to place an
ad in The Adver.
2. Every edition carries a large section of 'adult services'!
Need I say more?
Posted by: BWB, SWINDON on 9:53am Mon 5 May 08
Roert,you make a valid point.It is a vicious circle.No clients equals no Drug money for the next fix.
So they intimidate someone for money.Yes we are back to mugging.
I dont think there is an easy solution.
Roert,you make a valid point.It is a vicious circle.No clients equals no Drug money for the next fix.
So they intimidate someone for money.Yes we are back to mugging.
I dont think there is an easy solution.
Posted by: BWB, SWINDON on 10:04am Mon 5 May 08
[quote][bold]Donkey[/bold] wrote:
Two points: 1. It is very costly to place an [italic]ad in The Adver[/italic]. 2. Every edition carries a large section of 'adult services'! Need I say more? [/quote] Good point Donkey.
Perhaps the media that take these ads
could be aiding and abetting. also taking
ad money from immoral
earnings.Money is louder than words.
Donkey wrote:
Two points: 1. It is very costly to place an ad in The Adver. 2. Every edition carries a large section of 'adult services'! Need I say more?
Good point Donkey.
Perhaps the media that take these ads
could be aiding and abetting. also taking
ad money from immoral
earnings.Money is louder than words.
Posted by: Suzanne Hammond, Colwyn Bay on 10:40am Mon 5 May 08
The glaring error in this story has already been identified. It [bold]is[/bold] a crime to persistently loiter or solicit in the street as a prostitute, and 'kerb crawling' is also illegal, but [italic][bold]prostitution in itself is not a crime.[/bold][/italic]
Sadly, Swindon Police are likely to make a bad situation worse for street prostitutes by forcing the trade into dark alleys from well-lit streets, making girls more vulnerable to the next Peter Sutcliffe or Steve Wright to come along.
And the Home Office is even now considering making paying for sex (not selling it) illegal.
For a fuller version of the law go here:
http://www.sw5.info/
law.htm
[bold]And to do something about it, go here:
http://petitions.pm.
gov.uk/sexworkers/[/bold]
The glaring error in this story has already been identified. It
is a crime to persistently loiter or solicit in the street as a prostitute, and 'kerb crawling' is also illegal, but
prostitution in itself is not a crime.
Sadly, Swindon Police are likely to make a bad situation worse for street prostitutes by forcing the trade into dark alleys from well-lit streets, making girls more vulnerable to the next Peter Sutcliffe or Steve Wright to come along.
And the Home Office is even now considering making paying for sex (not selling it) illegal.
For a fuller version of the law go here:
http://www.sw5.info/
law.htm
And to do something about it, go here:
http://petitions.pm.
gov.uk/sexworkers/ Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 12:22pm Mon 5 May 08
Suzanne, to coin a phrase, 'you cannot be serious'
[bold]We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to reject proposals to drive prostitution further underground by prosecuting clients of prostitutes; to endorse the policy suggested by the Royal College of Nursing, the National Association of Probation Officers and others by decriminalising prostitution; and to observe Council of Europe Resolution 1579 of October 2007[/bold]
Suzanne, to coin a phrase, 'you cannot be serious'
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to reject proposals to drive prostitution further underground by prosecuting clients of prostitutes; to endorse the policy suggested by the Royal College of Nursing, the National Association of Probation Officers and others by decriminalising prostitution; and to observe Council of Europe Resolution 1579 of October 2007 Posted by: Tobz on 1:09pm Mon 5 May 08
[quote]Two points:
1. It is very costly to place an ad in The Adver.
2. Every edition carries a large section of 'adult services'!
Need I say more?[/quote]
Spot on Donkey! It makes our local answer to the Daily Mail look somewhat hypocritical, does it not? Money talks - on the street or to the advertising sales guys in the paper... (As we're unlikely to get a proper editorial comment here, I think I'll raise this for open and uncensored debate on another community chat forum ;-) )
Two points:
1. It is very costly to place an ad in The Adver.
2. Every edition carries a large section of 'adult services'!
Need I say more?
Spot on Donkey! It makes our local answer to the Daily Mail look somewhat hypocritical, does it not? Money talks - on the street or to the advertising sales guys in the paper... (As we're unlikely to get a proper editorial comment here, I think I'll raise this for open and uncensored debate on another community chat forum ;-) )
Posted by: Chav, North Swindon on 2:32pm Mon 5 May 08
Prostitution is one of the oldest proffessions in time.
You are never going to stop it.
Move the prostitutes on and you are just moving the problem to another area.
I think the only way to get a handle on it, is to accomodate it - not in the way people think.
If there was a place that was out of the way of residential areas, that was a registered place, then they would have somewhere to go where it is monitored.
I am a woman and I do not like the thought of walking through town beeing leered at by kerb crawlers mistaking me for a lady of the night, but as I say, you will never totally rid any area of it completely.
Chav
Prostitution is one of the oldest proffessions in time.
You are never going to stop it.
Move the prostitutes on and you are just moving the problem to another area.
I think the only way to get a handle on it, is to accomodate it - not in the way people think.
If there was a place that was out of the way of residential areas, that was a registered place, then they would have somewhere to go where it is monitored.
I am a woman and I do not like the thought of walking through town beeing leered at by kerb crawlers mistaking me for a lady of the night, but as I say, you will never totally rid any area of it completely.
Chav
Posted by: Frontier(s) on 3:18pm Mon 5 May 08
If only Swindon was so great that prostitution was one of its 'biggest' problems.
Anyway, as the law considers prostitutes to be 'victims', rather than criminals (just like it does drug addicts), you can be sure this problem will continue - encouraged by the very authorities who pretend to want to stamp it out.
Lock up all prostitutes for a long times and, within a few months, there will be less prostituion. But, of course, they'll never do that.
If only Swindon was so great that prostitution was one of its 'biggest' problems.
Anyway, as the law considers prostitutes to be 'victims', rather than criminals (just like it does drug addicts), you can be sure this problem will continue - encouraged by the very authorities who pretend to want to stamp it out.
Lock up all prostitutes for a long times and, within a few months, there will be less prostituion. But, of course, they'll never do that.
Posted by: HoneyPie, The Shire on 3:48pm Mon 5 May 08
Given the long history of prostitution, we are never going to eradicate it, only move it somewhere else.
Surely the most sensible proposal would be to look at the Australian solution, where the 'problem' is controlled and at least offers some protection for both parties. As well as the tax revenue gain, the drugs problem tends to be reduced and the dangers to health of all involved (including any innocent partners) are protected far more than is currently the case.
If it is away from family areas,surely it is better for everyone concerned.
'Legalisation' or introducing some form of control doesn't necessarily mean condoning what is going on.
Given the long history of prostitution, we are never going to eradicate it, only move it somewhere else.
Surely the most sensible proposal would be to look at the Australian solution, where the 'problem' is controlled and at least offers some protection for both parties. As well as the tax revenue gain, the drugs problem tends to be reduced and the dangers to health of all involved (including any innocent partners) are protected far more than is currently the case.
If it is away from family areas,surely it is better for everyone concerned.
'Legalisation' or introducing some form of control doesn't necessarily mean condoning what is going on.
Posted by: P S Altery, Swindon on 6:25pm Mon 5 May 08
[quote][bold]Donkey[/bold] wrote:
Two points: 1. It is very costly to place an [italic]ad in The Adver[/italic]. 2. Every edition carries a large section of 'adult services'! Need I say more? [/quote] First time I've ever agreed with you, spot on!
Donkey wrote:
Two points: 1. It is very costly to place an ad in The Adver. 2. Every edition carries a large section of 'adult services'! Need I say more?
First time I've ever agreed with you, spot on!
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 6:34pm Mon 5 May 08
Sorry this may be old fashioned, but why would women want to prostitute themselves, and why would men want to be clients. I don't wish to create a
debate on the merits, but If someone is happily married ( whatever that may mean) is the Carnal Urge so great that people would put that at risk.
Sorry this may be old fashioned, but why would women want to prostitute themselves, and why would men want to be clients. I don't wish to create a
debate on the merits, but If someone is happily married ( whatever that may mean) is the Carnal Urge so great that people would put that at risk.
Posted by: amlorusso, Swindon on 6:56pm Mon 5 May 08
Automatically naming and shaming cautioned or convicted kerb-crawlers would probably be a good deterrent. This aspect of prostitution is clearly illegal, and for the people in the area, whether they are residents or just passing through objectionable, and should be dealt with.
Why do prostitutes and clients do this? Ask them, but not every client is a married looking for extra-marital sex, and not every prostitute is funding a drug habit.
Automatically naming and shaming cautioned or convicted kerb-crawlers would probably be a good deterrent. This aspect of prostitution is clearly illegal, and for the people in the area, whether they are residents or just passing through objectionable, and should be dealt with.
Why do prostitutes and clients do this? Ask them, but not every client is a married looking for extra-marital sex, and not every prostitute is funding a drug habit.
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 7:24pm Mon 5 May 08
amlorusso, blimey I started to read your post and thought, objectivity, and then I got to the bit about my questions. Not wishing to get into stats, those who use Prostitutes (within my knowledge) usually are married, or divorced. As for the drug habit did someone say that( sorry BWB did) Sorry if it offends I really can't get my head around why a woman would want to do it, I know ask Billie, she's probably got a good insight, and she hasn't featured lately, Melinda seems to have the upper hand.
amlorusso, blimey I started to read your post and thought, objectivity, and then I got to the bit about my questions. Not wishing to get into stats, those who use Prostitutes (within my knowledge) usually are married, or divorced. As for the drug habit did someone say that( sorry BWB did) Sorry if it offends I really can't get my head around why a woman would want to do it, I know ask Billie, she's probably got a good insight, and she hasn't featured lately, Melinda seems to have the upper hand.
Posted by: who dat? on 7:42pm Mon 5 May 08
"Donkey wrote:
Two points: 1. It is very costly to place an ad in The Adver. 2. Every edition carries a large section of 'adult services'! Need I say more?
Good point Donkey.
Perhaps the media that take these ads
could be aiding and abetting. also taking
ad money from immoral
earnings.Money is louder than words."
Interesting that [bold]6 MONTHS[/bold] after the Government and the Newspaper Society launched a campaign to reduce sex trafficking
that the Adver continues to run these ads - presumably Mr Gannett carries more clout at Adver towers than d-d-d-d-dithering Gordon!
Any views from the " Minister for Britishness" or B'Anne'd Wagon Snelgrove?
See:
holdthefrontpage.co.
uk/news/080201sextra
de.shtml
newspapersoc.org.uk/
Default.aspx?page=29
80
"Donkey wrote:
Two points: 1. It is very costly to place an ad in The Adver. 2. Every edition carries a large section of 'adult services'! Need I say more?
Good point Donkey.
Perhaps the media that take these ads
could be aiding and abetting. also taking
ad money from immoral
earnings.Money is louder than words."
Interesting that
6 MONTHS after the Government and the Newspaper Society launched a campaign to reduce sex trafficking
that the Adver continues to run these ads - presumably Mr Gannett carries more clout at Adver towers than d-d-d-d-dithering Gordon!
Any views from the " Minister for Britishness" or B'Anne'd Wagon Snelgrove?
See:
holdthefrontpage.co.
uk/news/080201sextra
de.shtml
newspapersoc.org.uk/
Default.aspx?page=29
80
Posted by: HoneyPie, The Shire on 9:42pm Mon 5 May 08
RFM - Ahhh! I get it now! It's called objectivity if someone agrees with your views. That says something.
You also claim to have some knowledge of who these clients might be. Not just speculation. Interesting.
I don't understand why these women (and men, for that matter) prostitute their bodies on the streets and on the pages of numerous **** mags and so-called family newspapers. Not to mention films and nightclubs, et al. Other than they are offered money to do it. Usually by men, I understand (although I couldn't possibly corroborate that theory - I have no inside knowledge as such). And why would a man put himself at risk of picking up a nasty disease? It's a risky business for all concerned.
History has demonstrated that you can't get rid of it, only move it somewhere else, send it underground or have proper control of the situation. Clearing them off the streets just makes room for more. The prisons are already bursting at the seams. An answer based in the real world is needed to solve the problem.
We need to be open to ideas that have made a positive difference. Like Australia. They may not have solved it, but they've made it a little bit safer for all concerned.
RFM - Ahhh! I get it now! It's called objectivity if someone agrees with your views. That says something.
You also claim to have some knowledge of who these clients might be. Not just speculation. Interesting.
I don't understand why these women (and men, for that matter) prostitute their bodies on the streets and on the pages of numerous **** mags and so-called family newspapers. Not to mention films and nightclubs, et al. Other than they are offered money to do it. Usually by men, I understand (although I couldn't possibly corroborate that theory - I have no inside knowledge as such). And why would a man put himself at risk of picking up a nasty disease? It's a risky business for all concerned.
History has demonstrated that you can't get rid of it, only move it somewhere else, send it underground or have proper control of the situation. Clearing them off the streets just makes room for more. The prisons are already bursting at the seams. An answer based in the real world is needed to solve the problem.
We need to be open to ideas that have made a positive difference. Like Australia. They may not have solved it, but they've made it a little bit safer for all concerned.
Posted by: Mumstheword, Walcot on 10:32pm Mon 5 May 08
Most newspapers have an "adult" classified section! Perhaps you would like the newspapers to be more censored? But then no doubt you would complain when due to limited advertising revenue the price of your local newspaper soared.
Most newspapers have an "adult" classified section! Perhaps you would like the newspapers to be more censored? But then no doubt you would complain when due to limited advertising revenue the price of your local newspaper soared.
Posted by: SpeakUp, Swindon on 1:45am Tue 6 May 08
The people of Manchester Road have, perhaps understandably, campaigned long and hard against prostitutes using their streets. The result? They've moved to Gorse Hill. Bet the people who live there are grateful!
The fact is you won't stop this sleazy trade. Many generations have tried and failed. It's a shame but no less true for all that.
Tackle the drug problem forcefully and maybe the number of prostitutes will, at least, decrease.
Oh, and make it illegal for newspapers to make profit from advertising the illegal activity too. Or maybe the Adver could lead the moral way and refuse to publish these adverts? Bet they don't.
The people of Manchester Road have, perhaps understandably, campaigned long and hard against prostitutes using their streets. The result? They've moved to Gorse Hill. Bet the people who live there are grateful!
The fact is you won't stop this sleazy trade. Many generations have tried and failed. It's a shame but no less true for all that.
Tackle the drug problem forcefully and maybe the number of prostitutes will, at least, decrease.
Oh, and make it illegal for newspapers to make profit from advertising the illegal activity too. Or maybe the Adver could lead the moral way and refuse to publish these adverts? Bet they don't.
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 8:06am Tue 6 May 08
Honeypie.
[bold]You also claim to have some knowledge of who these clients might be. Not just speculation. Interesting.[/bold] I use to be a policeman in the days when we actually did something constructive on the streets, not I hasten to add in Wiltshire. My knowledge comes from the 'facts'. As for pushing it elsewhere if there was zero tolerance in Swindon then it wouldn't matter where they went the police would follow. Aside from enforced prostitution, ie gangs and pimps, those who do it make choices. Those men/women who use prostitutes make choices, those choices are illegal and should be dealt with as such. A society which chooses which laws it wants to obey is on a slippery slope to Anarchy.
Honeypie.
You also claim to have some knowledge of who these clients might be. Not just speculation. Interesting. I use to be a policeman in the days when we actually did something constructive on the streets, not I hasten to add in Wiltshire. My knowledge comes from the 'facts'. As for pushing it elsewhere if there was zero tolerance in Swindon then it wouldn't matter where they went the police would follow. Aside from enforced prostitution, ie gangs and pimps, those who do it make choices. Those men/women who use prostitutes make choices, those choices are illegal and should be dealt with as such. A society which chooses which laws it wants to obey is on a slippery slope to Anarchy.
Posted by: Covingham Exile, Hampshire on 8:52am Tue 6 May 08
I feel sorry for the guy who's mother's a prostitute. He must often wonder whether he's the result of a loving act or a commercial transaction. How sad.
I feel sorry for the guy who's mother's a prostitute. He must often wonder whether he's the result of a loving act or a commercial transaction. How sad.
Posted by: angry monkey, Swindon on 9:40am Tue 6 May 08
legalise, tax and regulate brothels.
A war on prositiution is as pointless as the war on drugs. It will never be won. ever.
legalise, tax and regulate brothels.
A war on prositiution is as pointless as the war on drugs. It will never be won. ever.
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 10:23am Tue 6 May 08
So why not give up on all crimes, abolish the police save millions. As I said ignore any law and one creates the potential for Anarchy.
So why not give up on all crimes, abolish the police save millions. As I said ignore any law and one creates the potential for Anarchy.
Posted by: LordBelacqua, Swindon on 10:26am Tue 6 May 08
[quote][bold]Robert Feal-Martinez[/bold] wrote:
So why not give up on all crimes, abolish the police save millions. As I said ignore any law and one creates the potential for Anarchy.[/quote] Well, if we did it on prostitution and drugs, labour could tax it until you couldn't afford to anyway!
Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:
So why not give up on all crimes, abolish the police save millions. As I said ignore any law and one creates the potential for Anarchy.
Well, if we did it on prostitution and drugs, labour could tax it until you couldn't afford to anyway!
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 10:30am Tue 6 May 08
I sincerely hope that was meant as the 'royal you, LordB.
I sincerely hope that was meant as the 'royal you, LordB.
Posted by: Voice of Reason, The Parks on 11:11am Tue 6 May 08
I am sorry but I agree with the others who say legalise it and place brothels outside of Town. It has been proven it can work look at Australia, it will take many of the children off the streets as well..
I am sorry but I agree with the others who say legalise it and place brothels outside of Town. It has been proven it can work look at Australia, it will take many of the children off the streets as well..
Posted by: Taxpower, Swinetown on 12:24pm Tue 6 May 08
here it comes again the Moral Police in action. So is it protitution to pay someone restaurant and hotel bill for sex, or is it only paying for it in cash?
here it comes again the Moral Police in action. So is it protitution to pay someone restaurant and hotel bill for sex, or is it only paying for it in cash?
Posted by: LordBelacqua, Swindon on 12:27pm Tue 6 May 08
[quote][bold]Robert Feal-Martinez[/bold] wrote:
I sincerely hope that was meant as the 'royal you, LordB. [/quote] Yes, it was an imperial "we", Bob, haha!
Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:
I sincerely hope that was meant as the 'royal you, LordB.
Yes, it was an imperial "we", Bob, haha!
Posted by: HoneyPie, The Shire on 12:59pm Tue 6 May 08
Robert - if you re-read my post, I do not claim to have a great deal of knowledge of these 'clients'. Other than being propositioned a number of times and in one case molested in broad daylight on my way home from the office. Being naturally endowed in the 'windowbox' department, I was obviously 'asking for it', as the judges say...
Every encounter with these male predators was with young-ish blokes who I would strongly suspect were not married or with partners. But that's just my experience.
Look at the Stag party trips to Amsterdam & Prague and the like. What a great laugh (not).
Fortunately, these sleeze-balls appear to be in the minority. But you are not going to stop it with pie-in-the-sky 'zero tolerance' zones - you will just move it elsewhere or underground. Yes, yes, yes, it's illegal. So are many things that the law has trouble enforcing. I would wager that the law has changed considerably since you pounded the beat - we need to live in the reality of here and now.
Anarchy is often the result of uninforceable law. Get control. Get a grip!
Robert - if you re-read my post, I do not claim to have a great deal of knowledge of these 'clients'. Other than being propositioned a number of times and in one case molested in broad daylight on my way home from the office. Being naturally endowed in the 'windowbox' department, I was obviously 'asking for it', as the judges say...
Every encounter with these male predators was with young-ish blokes who I would strongly suspect were not married or with partners. But that's just my experience.
Look at the Stag party trips to Amsterdam & Prague and the like. What a great laugh (not).
Fortunately, these sleeze-balls appear to be in the minority. But you are not going to stop it with pie-in-the-sky 'zero tolerance' zones - you will just move it elsewhere or underground. Yes, yes, yes, it's illegal. So are many things that the law has trouble enforcing. I would wager that the law has changed considerably since you pounded the beat - we need to live in the reality of here and now.
Anarchy is often the result of uninforceable law. Get control. Get a grip!
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 1:09pm Tue 6 May 08
You are right on one front policing has changed, but certainly not for the better.
You are right on one front policing has changed, but certainly not for the better.
Posted by: dalekdave, Swindon on 4:48pm Tue 6 May 08
[quote][bold]Robert Feal-Martinez[/bold] wrote:
So why not give up on all crimes, abolish the police save millions. As I said ignore any law and one creates the potential for Anarchy.[/quote] Perhaps crime should be defined as only something that someone does to someone who doesnt want it done to them (murder, rape, robbery etc) then this wouldn't be a crime. If people want to engage in this activity willingly, either as worker or customer, why not? Take it off the streets, tax it etc and then those whose lives are blighted by it (Manchester Road area) etc will get some peace at last.
Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:
So why not give up on all crimes, abolish the police save millions. As I said ignore any law and one creates the potential for Anarchy.
Perhaps crime should be defined as only something that someone does to someone who doesnt want it done to them (murder, rape, robbery etc) then this wouldn't be a crime. If people want to engage in this activity willingly, either as worker or customer, why not? Take it off the streets, tax it etc and then those whose lives are blighted by it (Manchester Road area) etc will get some peace at last.
Posted by: HoneyPie, The Shire on 6:43pm Tue 6 May 08
Robert - apologies. I think I may have read the first part of your post in a different way to the way I think you intended (only half-an-hour for lunch...). However, I still stand by my comments.
I think it might have been the introduction of the Police & Criminal Evidence Act that started the slipery slope for the police.
And I also think DalekDave is spot-on.
Robert - apologies. I think I may have read the first part of your post in a different way to the way I think you intended (only half-an-hour for lunch...). However, I still stand by my comments.
I think it might have been the introduction of the Police & Criminal Evidence Act that started the slipery slope for the police.
And I also think DalekDave is spot-on.
Posted by: malkym on 8:25pm Tue 6 May 08
[quote][bold]Robert Feal-Martinez[/bold] wrote:
Sorry this may be old fashioned, but why would women want to prostitute themselves, and why would men want to be clients. I don't wish to create a debate on the merits, but If someone is happily married ( whatever that may mean) is the Carnal Urge so great that people would put that at risk. [/quote] Err RFM as an ex copper your naivety is sometimes mindblowing - to answer your questions - a)because the women know there will always be guys who will pay for it, and they are down on their uppers and unable to survive on state handouts it may be a choice between selling sex and feeding the kids and paying the rent, or they are druggies b)men are clients because they are not in a relationship, and feel unable or they do not want to form one therefore the tart option suits -it discharges its obligation without recourse. c)the unhappily married man needs a safety valve to let off steam and the hooker is the release valve - QED eh RFM?
Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:
Sorry this may be old fashioned, but why would women want to prostitute themselves, and why would men want to be clients. I don't wish to create a debate on the merits, but If someone is happily married ( whatever that may mean) is the Carnal Urge so great that people would put that at risk.
Err RFM as an ex copper your naivety is sometimes mindblowing - to answer your questions - a)because the women know there will always be guys who will pay for it, and they are down on their uppers and unable to survive on state handouts it may be a choice between selling sex and feeding the kids and paying the rent, or they are druggies b)men are clients because they are not in a relationship, and feel unable or they do not want to form one therefore the tart option suits -it discharges its obligation without recourse. c)the unhappily married man needs a safety valve to let off steam and the hooker is the release valve - QED eh RFM?
Posted by: malkym on 10:22pm Tue 6 May 08
[quote][bold]Robert Feal-Martinez[/bold] wrote:
Sorry this may be old fashioned, but why would women want to prostitute themselves, and why would men want to be clients. I don't wish to create a debate on the merits, but If someone is happily married ( whatever that may mean) is the Carnal Urge so great that people would put that at risk. [/quote] Err RFM as an ex copper your naivety is sometimes mindblowing - to answer your questions - a)because the women know there will always be guys who will pay for it, and they are down on their uppers and unable to survive on state handouts it may be a choice between selling sex and feeding the kids and paying the rent, or they are druggies b)men are clients because they are not in a relationship, and feel unable or they do not want to form one therefore the tart option suits -it discharges its obligation without recourse. c)the unhappily married man needs a safety valve to let off steam and the hooker is the release valve - QED eh RFM?
Robert Feal-Martinez wrote:
Sorry this may be old fashioned, but why would women want to prostitute themselves, and why would men want to be clients. I don't wish to create a debate on the merits, but If someone is happily married ( whatever that may mean) is the Carnal Urge so great that people would put that at risk.
Err RFM as an ex copper your naivety is sometimes mindblowing - to answer your questions - a)because the women know there will always be guys who will pay for it, and they are down on their uppers and unable to survive on state handouts it may be a choice between selling sex and feeding the kids and paying the rent, or they are druggies b)men are clients because they are not in a relationship, and feel unable or they do not want to form one therefore the tart option suits -it discharges its obligation without recourse. c)the unhappily married man needs a safety valve to let off steam and the hooker is the release valve - QED eh RFM?
Posted by: amlorusso, Swindon on 5:09am Wed 7 May 08
Robert,
"Those men/women who use prostitutes make choices, those choices are illegal and should be dealt with as such. A society which chooses which laws it wants to obey is on a slippery slope to Anarchy."
Yes, laws need to be enforced. I've said that. My objectivity moment. But imaginary laws should not be enforced or promoted. There is a concerted campaign to push the idea that all buying and selling of sex is illegal, by people who wish it all buying and selling of sex was illegal.
"Suzanne, to coin a phrase, 'you cannot be serious'
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to reject proposals to drive prostitution further underground by prosecuting clients of prostitutes; to endorse the policy suggested by the Royal College of Nursing, the National Association of Probation Officers and others by decriminalising prostitution; and to observe Council of Europe Resolution 1579 of October 2007"
There are clear and known social problems from the consumption of alchohol. Not everybody who consumes alchohol causes problems to themselves or others, but there are enough to cause real problems in our health service, in our homes and on our streets.
How would you react to the proposal to enact a law to rid ourselves the scourge of alchohol, by making illegal the buying, selling and production of alchohol. All our regulations regarding the licensing of the production and sale of alchohol would be gone. Ridiculous you say?
As an ex-policeman and now a Landlord how do you balance the idea that alchohol can be consumed responsibly by some, and irresponsibly by others. Enact and enforce legislation against the anti-social aspects of alcohol you say, license the production of alchhol and the sale of alchohol, including the consumption of alchohol on the premesis, with dozens even hundreds of other people at the same time.
Ridiculous?
Robert,
"Those men/women who use prostitutes make choices, those choices are illegal and should be dealt with as such. A society which chooses which laws it wants to obey is on a slippery slope to Anarchy."
Yes, laws need to be enforced. I've said that. My objectivity moment. But imaginary laws should not be enforced or promoted. There is a concerted campaign to push the idea that all buying and selling of sex is illegal, by people who wish it all buying and selling of sex was illegal.
"Suzanne, to coin a phrase, 'you cannot be serious'
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to reject proposals to drive prostitution further underground by prosecuting clients of prostitutes; to endorse the policy suggested by the Royal College of Nursing, the National Association of Probation Officers and others by decriminalising prostitution; and to observe Council of Europe Resolution 1579 of October 2007"
There are clear and known social problems from the consumption of alchohol. Not everybody who consumes alchohol causes problems to themselves or others, but there are enough to cause real problems in our health service, in our homes and on our streets.
How would you react to the proposal to enact a law to rid ourselves the scourge of alchohol, by making illegal the buying, selling and production of alchohol. All our regulations regarding the licensing of the production and sale of alchohol would be gone. Ridiculous you say?
As an ex-policeman and now a Landlord how do you balance the idea that alchohol can be consumed responsibly by some, and irresponsibly by others. Enact and enforce legislation against the anti-social aspects of alcohol you say, license the production of alchhol and the sale of alchohol, including the consumption of alchohol on the premesis, with dozens even hundreds of other people at the same time.
Ridiculous?
Posted by: Robert Feal-Martinez, Swindon on 9:12am Wed 7 May 08
The sale and consumption of alcohol in licensed premises is the most regulated of social past times already. The only part that isn't and is the major cause of alcohol abuse, and anti social behaviour are supermarkets. The vast majority of licensees are responsible people dealing with what is at times a complex mix of personalities. The art of being a good licensee is the ability to observe and anticipate 'hot spots' and diffuse them. As for individual consumption, it has always been so, however in the past police would be around and if necessary, lock up offenders for the night, but licensees would ensure the status 'Q'. I have expressed my views on prostitution and what I see as a solution to something at a street level 'blights' residents lives. By all means have your brothels if that is what the majority want but don't expect the decent citizens of Swindon or anywhere else to condone or approve.
The sale and consumption of alcohol in licensed premises is the most regulated of social past times already. The only part that isn't and is the major cause of alcohol abuse, and anti social behaviour are supermarkets. The vast majority of licensees are responsible people dealing with what is at times a complex mix of personalities. The art of being a good licensee is the ability to observe and anticipate 'hot spots' and diffuse them. As for individual consumption, it has always been so, however in the past police would be around and if necessary, lock up offenders for the night, but licensees would ensure the status 'Q'. I have expressed my views on prostitution and what I see as a solution to something at a street level 'blights' residents lives. By all means have your brothels if that is what the majority want but don't expect the decent citizens of Swindon or anywhere else to condone or approve.
Posted by: amlorusso, Swindon on 3:11am Thu 8 May 08
Robert,
"By all means have your brothels if that is what the majority want but don't expect the decent citizens of Swindon or anywhere else to condone or approve."
So if the majority want it they are all indecent?
I wasn't expecting anything else from you or the decent citizens of Swindon, which includes me by the way, except the objectivity you think I lack.
If you were being objective you would be calling for this to be licensed. But you can't conceive of it and why people do this. You want to be a Public Official, you hope to be a member of parliament. If elected you are going to have to deal with this and other complex issues, and yet you can't imagine it.
Robert,
"By all means have your brothels if that is what the majority want but don't expect the decent citizens of Swindon or anywhere else to condone or approve."
So if the majority want it they are all indecent?
I wasn't expecting anything else from you or the decent citizens of Swindon, which includes me by the way, except the objectivity you think I lack.
If you were being objective you would be calling for this to be licensed. But you can't conceive of it and why people do this. You want to be a Public Official, you hope to be a member of parliament. If elected you are going to have to deal with this and other complex issues, and yet you can't imagine it.
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